No Secret....

It is not news to anyone who truly knows me that I am a passionate person. I am passionate in my relationships and how I share my love. I am passionate about things like decorating and music and reading and writing. I am passionate about children. I am passionate about cleaning and a few specific tendencies I have that are border-line OCD. I am EXTREMELY passionate about my beliefs both religious and political. This being the reason that for me they coincide so completely. Government for me is something that I could go on and on about but it often gets me into trouble. I am out-spoken and confrontational and even though I may start out in a discussion promising myself I will behave and be cordial I oft times find myself being very ornery and.... mean? Mean is not the right word but I cannot think of a better fit. My passion for what is right and just and moral gets me into trouble. Mr. Superman likes that I am passionate but sometimes he just has to leave the room when I rant and "discuss/debate" politics.

Alright so obviously during the election season this blog was a little overrun by political posts but I think I managed to salvage a few of my readers by toning it down after wards. The thing is people, is that I just stopped posting it here. I am an avid participant in discussions and debates on Facebook and many other forums online. My good friend C has very politically savvy parents who have the same views as I. I daresay her mother is a good friend of mine as well. Well C's brother posted a poem on his Facebook that has sparked quite the debate/discussion. My last rebuttal I think may get me into some trouble with a few family members but I don't care. These are my beliefs and opinions and pretending they aren't is a disservice to myself.  See what I mean? Passion=trouble sometimes. I am going to go ahead and attach the poem with the debate minus the names except for mine. This is to save anyone from taking offense.

At first I thought this was funny...then I realized the awful truth of it. Be sure to read all the way to the end!

A poem about taxes

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for peanuts Anyway!

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt..

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his a__.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers,
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.

Put these words
upon his tomb,
' Taxes drove me to my doom....'
When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax


Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was
the most prosperous in the world.

We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in
the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

What in the world happened? Can you spell 'politicians!'

Poli - The Latin word for Many.
Tics - Blood Sucking Insects.
Politics = Many Blood Sucking Insects!

Participant A:

We have more people, we have more roads, we have more stuff, we expect more stuff, we expect our stuff cheap, we expect to have all the stuff we want and not have to pay for it. We expect health care and to live a long life and to be cared for, we expect the best education n the world, we expect to not have our children to not work in sweat shops (which was happening) We expect to just work 8 hours a day and have a living wage.We expect to eat as much as we want, drink as much as we want, smoke as much as we want, drive want we want to drive, waste what we want to wast, we expect perfect food from anywhere any time of the year, we expect to have as many children as we want and above all we Expect To Not Pay Taxes. We expect clean water that come right into our house, we expect to water our grass, we expect to get rid of waste, we expect to all children immunized, we expect childhood diseases to not exist in our country, we expect electricity in every home, we expect telephone service, Internet, and cable, we expect, we expect, we expect, and we expect to NOT Pay Taxes.

Mrs. S:

It's not that we expect to not pay taxes but there are things in place called checks and balances that are supposed to make things even and fair. They are supposed to make sure that government doesn't overstep its bounds which has happened. It has happened to the extent that our nation is deep in debt, over taxing its people, and passing laws and implementing taxes and other things that are in no way constitutional.

Participant B:

What incentive do the top wager earners have to produce when their taxes keep going up even when they're already paying more than 50% of the taxes? Lower taxes and business owners have more money to buy more stuff and hire more people. Increase taxes, and they're forced to lay people off. What confidence can investors have in this administration when the market is down 30% in 3 mos? Of course that's fine for Obamaites to stick it to those evil rich people so everything can be more "fair" for everyone. Those evil rich people losing all their money are the ones who provide millions of jobs. Sad when people put their faith in govt rather than the ingenuity of the American people.

Mrs. S:

Its sad that the American Government has become so diluted as to think that Socialism is the right way of doing things.

Participant C:

Mrs. S, I'm proud of you! We do expect some taxes, but this has gotten so out of hand that it will become an unrecognizable nation soon- one we would not want our children raised in - a third world country, where no one is free. Some people lose their rights during war time - but we handed ours away. Sad:(

Participant D:

It's funny Participant A, the things you mention are things liberals feel they are entitled to. Free health care? Free schooling? The government should provide these things? No. We should pay for them ourselves. The only exceptions are the disabled and the elderly, really. But able bodied adults should have no problem providing for ourselves. 100 years ago the people maintained their own roads. The govt shouldn't be so involved its bad for all humanity.

Mrs. S:

The issue that has become so pressing is that now there really is a lack of incentive to work hard. If you're at the bottom of the totem pole, there is no reason to work to get higher because our new President is going to make sure you have everything you've ever wanted. The icing on the cake? You won't have to do a thing. If you have worked hard and done well? You get punished. Your hard earned and well deserved wealth is going to be taken from you and redistributed to help those "in need". In need meaning to lazy to get up and work. Robin Hood is a good story and all but its just a fairy tale.

Participant E:

My sister's able bodied....but since she has a slipped disc in her back from when she was 15 she has a hard time affording health care and after three years of being on her own health care, she just finally got her back covered last week...

Participant C:

Actually, having a back injury makes you less able. And do you think you should have to pay for someone to have Internet or cable? It's time for people to be responsible for themselves. What ever happened to pulling yourself up by the bootstrap? I guess now, you don't have to aspire for greatness, you don't have to do anything, you deserve what your neighbor has, just because you were born! Penalizing the wealthy will not encourage growth of the economy-it will wreak the economy. Obama has done more damage in the first two months than any president in history. Your children and grandchildren will be paying this debt. You will work your entire lifetime and never retire - you won't be able to afford to and there is no retirement now so we won't retire. Big government is a nightmare and we're in it. I feel so sorry for you young people - you never had a chance :(

Participant F:

I don't know about the rest of you, but we pay for our water, sewer, home, phone, Internet, satellite, gasoline, food, clothing, property insurance, health insurance, medical bills on top of what insurance doesn't cover(that includes immunizations for my children), gas tax, road tax, property tax, state income tax, federal income tax, social security tax(that will probably not be there for us to use for our own retirement-ha)-AND we pay taxes to provide for services for the less able, for schools, police and fire protection, for our military, for roads, libraries, jails,we subsidize daycare, housing, school lunches and health care for indigent. It is a free land and yes, I will have as many children as I'm able to raise and care for, I will live in a house I can afford, I will drive the vehicle that accommodates my family. I believe every life is sacred and abhor the thought of my money being spent to kill the innocent. I'm proud to be an American and I'm sad for the state it's in.

Participant C:

The colonies were fine with taxation until it became a heavy burden and unjustified-much like it's becoming now. Small revolts are happening across the nation and soon it may be time to stand up for freedom, liberty and the American way!

Participant D:

Participant F, who do you think is going to pay this bill that Mr O. has given the country? Free health care is not free!! Do you think I should pay if you just don't want to go to work? That's not to say if you cannot work don't confuse it.

Participant A:

I just keep wondering who these people are you keep talking about. Who are they and where are they? Everyone I know works hard and have long range plans. They are not letting setbacks stop them from pursuing their dreams. I know only one who looks for the short cut. I know there are people out there but they are not the majority or we would not be the country we are today. This recession started in 07 and it is not something that started on Jan 09. The truth is there are people out there trying to make it on less, that don't have family to help them, that are unskilled, untaught, or going to school and trying to get to that point of making a living to support themselves. You talk like you are the only hard working people out there and everyone else in sitting on the couch watching TV with their hand out. I haven't heard anything about free health care, just affordable, affordable insurance. And who are you to judge who "wants to work" and " who don't want to work". Participant B, when did you get so protective of the rich. I feel so sorry for those poor billionaires like Bernie Maddof, You know maybe they shouldn't have to pay more taxes. I think since you guys want to pay your way you should have to pay a pure cost for all those things you love. No taxes included in what you pay for. Not tax money included in the production of things. Pure cost of electricity- to the food on your table. The pure cost of roads, to your health care and then you would see what having no money is like. Keep your little bit of taxes and see if you come close to breaking even. Maybe we all need to see what the real cost of our lives are. The real cost of the water in your pools to the gas in your cars. Maybe would build smaller homes, drive smaller cars, protect our environment, buy our food local, not build in a dessert and grow corn in our food fields. We can not have it all.

Participant D:

No judgment. I'm not judging people who don't "want" to work. I'm just saying if you decide to not work you better have money or a way to afford these things, but don't ask me to pay for an able bodied person. Again no judgment on this side of the aisle. Participant A, I'm very glad you finally admit that the recession started in 07 when the Dem's started railroading this country. Please tell your lib friends so we can stop this disease (BDS) The only way to recover is to acknowledge.

Participant C:

Participant A, I think you need to slow down - most of what you talk about are things we pay to have, not anything taxed. We pay plenty and live quite simply and we pay our own way. Unlike many of the liberal democrats who like spending everyone Else's' money. How would you know the PURE cost of anything, is that what you pay? Of course not! And when you say your little bit of taxes, well we are probably paying more in taxes than you, so when you move to a house that more closely fits the size of your family, then we'll talk. This class warfare has to stop and I'm not talking about the Bernie Madoffs. We appreciate the wealthy, those who employ others, those who pay the most taxes, those who keep this country solvent. What is scary now is how low the figure for being "wealthy" is. Who decided who was the wealthy? Well now Obama changes that regularly - soon it will be $60,000 because he can't afford not to tax them, he has spent and over spent and spent into your daughter's children's generation. THAT is what should concern you - your sweet granddaughter will never have the things your kids had, because Obama mortgaged her future and you think it's a great idea- so great, you'll argue for it. unbelievable!!

Mrs. S:

All I know is what is going on today is a far cry from what our country was based on. The Founding Father's would weep if they saw how far this country has sunk and how utterly destroyed the morale of its politicians has become. It really does make me sick.

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

-The late Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931-2005

Participant A:

Sorry Participant D, I don't have any "Lib" friends, you forget I live in Indiana. And we are commenting on the poem and the taxes listed there. The point is we do not know the pure cost of any thing. That is why we are so so so so wasteful. If we did maybe we would treat our world different. And all that pork that has been flying out of Washington for YEARS REPUBLICAN and DEMOCRAT is subsidizing almost everything in our life to MAKE IT CHEAP. You can pay it in taxes or straight out of you paycheck. I guess I don't understand "those liberal democrats that like spending other peoples money" I know a lot a lot a lot of Republicans that live just as freely as you describe. I don't get why it always has to be us Republicans who live one way and it is the right way, vs the rest of the world is "Dem's" that live another. I don't think you can tell them apart if you throw in a barrel. Everyone lives for themselves.

Participant C:

The difference is rep. believe in personal responsibility and paying your own way, Dem's believe in subsidizing others projects, remember they're the ones who wants to raise the tax, but can't seem to remember to pay their own-they believe in class warfare and keeping the little guy down and out, on welfare and beholden to the party that will keep paying them to lay around. Dem's want to spread my money to others and hide their money in some offshore account. True rebus are capitalists, Dem's are

Participant E:

Participant D, I didn't comment anything about the stimulus bill...also no I don't think you should have to pay if I "just don't want to go to work." I never said anything along those lines. I made a comment about health care, my sister's back doesn't affect how long she works or how much money she makes, it just hurts all the time, and she needs physical therapy. It affects how much she pays for health care and whether or not she gets coverage, which for three years she didn't. Like I said, I dare you to tell her it's because she doesn't believe in "personal responsibility" or because she "doesn't work hard enough". And Mrs. S, I dare you to say the same thing to *insert name here* and see what he has to say about his wife. Also, you should research what's going to with the Mesa police department because of the stimulus bill. They're begging for the money.

Mrs. S:

I am not saying anything about how difficult it is to get health care, or talking about people who are willing but not able to work. The point I and most of us are trying to make is that this country, built on freedom and ingenuity and hard work, is falling apart. Only someone truly naive and ignorant would argue that fact. I understand how absolutely difficult it is to not only afford health care but to be able to obtain it and have it be of good quality. I do not have health insurance due to the cost and the fact that I have what insurance companies to be a "pre-existing condition". The point is that this so called miracle working stimulus package has put this country in so deep of debt that my grand kids will be working it off and won't succeed. This stimulus package is doing nothing for the hard working Americans who slave away and get nowhere but for the rich, irresponsible, selfish bureaucrats that foolishly squandered theirs and others money away. The point is that Obama's stance on so many issues are the polar opposite of what America is supposed to be about. Not only America's but the truly honest and moral way of handling things is being forgotten and forsaken for the "good of all." Not the good of all, the good of those who do not care or do not know (or both) what the good of all really means. Even though my husband and I work hard to get out of debt and make our way to try and get ahead, I would never ask for someone elses hard earned money to put us there. Most of the people who are for the stimulus package and for this "new" idea of spreading the wealth are people who do not understand how Socialistic it really is. If they do that goes to show how against they are for America and what we are supposed to be doing.

Just to push the point a little further a direct line from The Declaration of Independence.

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

The sad thing is though, the the people of America are either too dense and ignorant to do anything to change the government which has so blatantly over stepped its bounds or the ones that realize this and wish to do something are in the minority.

Also, just the fact that I have a brother who is on Mesa PD doesn't mean I would change my stance on this at all. Whatever their situation is doesn't change the fact that all of the things being passed and signed off on by our President and our Members of Congress makes them any more right.

Participant E:

I'm not going to talk about Obama and this stimulus bill with you anymore. Ever since our country was founded people have interpreted things differently. Just to push my point a little further a direct line from the declaration of independence.

"...all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

And one from the eighth amendment

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

So I, along with many others, consider the death penalty to be unconstitutional and an area where the government is blatantly overstepping it's bounds. That's my opinion, that's the way I interpret the constitution. But, I'm certainly not going to call you dense and ignorant for not agreeing with me. I understand that you didn't bring up the death penalty, I'm just trying to find an obvious example of where people interpret the constitution differently. So you can call things unconstitutional or constitutional all you want, but no matter what there are always going to be people that disagree with you. Frustrating, huh? I know it is for me. So, that's why there's no point in continuing this, because we obviously have two different views. Also, I forgot your brother was a police officer, and I didn't know he worked for Mesa PD, i just saw that stuff this morning on the news and found it really interesting. I didn't mean it as a personal attack or anything.

Participant C:

So, Participant E, it's cruel and unusual punishment to give the death penalty to a rapist/murderer/molestor, but it's okay to give the death penalty to an innocent unborn baby? Strange, I think. And I have to say Mrs. S. has a grasp of the bigger picture, because of Obama's massive spending, we will never be out of debt and your children will suffer for it, and ALL of us will be paying for this - forever...

Participant E:

To answer your question yes, and I don't think it's strange. But I'm not going to get into that any further because I really don't want to ARGUE about it; if I politely stated my opinion on the subject it would just be rudely attacked. I see the horrible stuff people say to Participant A because she disagrees. It seems that talking nicely is not possible here. Conservatives are just living up to their stereotypes that they are mean, judgmental and that they constantly throw around accusations. Unfortunately, I live in Gilbert therefore, politically, hardly anyone agrees with me. Not only that, my views and opinions are also looked down on and mocked. I never should have posted anything in the first place; it has already been made clear to me that opposing views are not welcome. And thanks for proving my point that people interpret the constitution differently. I really have nothing more to say except peace out for real, I'm done with this "argument" because it's never going to go anywhere.

Participant F:

Are you seriously saying that it is okay to kill an unborn innocent baby because people are stupid and don't know safe sex but that its horrible to kill a murderer and child molesters and people that are complete garbage?

Participant C:

The only rudeness I have seen hasn't come from us. We haven't attacked anyone. You can't give offense, only take it, and it seems you want to take it. We could easily be offended by the things you say, but it's not worth it. You want to be a victim-be one. No one is calling you names, although it seems you have done that. Quit getting involved if you can't debate a point without getting your feelings hurt. No one has said anything to you that is offensive. Asking a question is not inappropriate. If you want to think it's okay to let some menace to society live, while murdering an innocent child is fine, well if you can sleep at night and think that's okay, well okay. It's not 'Gilbert' that's your problem, it goes much higher than that. It doesn't matter what I think, but it does matter what your Heavenly Father thinks.

And, you need to read again and tell me where I've said anything mean to Participant A- we have been lifetime friends (30 years), and you'll see that she debates vigorously and says what she wants to, never giving in and NEVER getting offended- and we don't get offended by what she says - that's what maturity is and what debate is. Participant A is not a vicitm and neither are you. Now we could be offended by the things you say, but we won't. But I will do whatever I can to save every innocent life possible and take in any baby that needs my care, and know that what I do is what my Heavenly Father wants me to do. And any person that commits heinous crimes should receive the full penalty provided by law, they give up their right to life if that is what is decided. I would be happy to put the needle in!!

Participant D:

Participant E, conservatives throw around accusations? Is that what people say? I think I heard that Sarah Palin's son born of down syndrome was actually Bristol's child. That's what the liberal news media reported. I've heard in liberal circles that 911 was an inside job orchestrated by George Bush. These accusations from people on the left are both insanely inflammatory and very unsubstantiated ridiculous rumors. If you'll notice Participant E, the conservative media tries to inform people of FACTS. There will always be a bad apple in the group so mud will be thrown but by and large you have these roles reversed.

If you stuck it out through this entire post I'm not only proud of you but I appreciate it. I'll see if I can wait a while before I get all passionate on you guys again.

1 comment:

Hayley said...

You should listen to Glenn Beck. He is a glimmer of hope in a corrupt world.